Debate/Discussion Topic

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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Foxesrule » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:41 am

KibaWolf wrote:If they're eating kids then they're starving to death.By eating the children,the mates can have a stronger litter next time around.


Komodo dragons are cannibals, they eat any baby Komodo dragon. Related or not.

The parents normally care for the egg, and don't eat their offspring right away.


Wolves vs. Foxes is not a fair debate. That would be debating on how people feel towards that animal-I don't think (?) that would be a proper debate.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby KibaWolf » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:36 pm

It kind of is.It's comparing the traits of two different yet related (both canines) animals.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Grep42 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:43 pm

New Debate: Is it ok to eat meat?

I take the side of the carnivores. The only reason humans evolved further is because we found a way to digest meat better: cooking. Basically, without meat, we wouldn't be the race we are today.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby SouthernStar » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:09 pm

I agree with the Grep42. Even a few plants are carnivorous, for example the Venus Fly Trap.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby animalguy888 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:42 pm

Grep42 wrote:New Debate: Is it ok to eat meat?

I take the side of the carnivores. The only reason humans evolved further is because we found a way to digest meat better: cooking. Basically, without meat, we wouldn't be the race we are today.



Yes it as okay to eat meat. Humans share a trait with animals such as pigs and bears. We are Omnivores. That means we have the capability of eating both meat and plants. In the Wild animals have to hunt to survive. Even some plants eat meat. Not Just Venus flytraps but also plants such as the pitcher plant and even the sundew. Meat is essiental to both plants and animals. If there are no meat eaters to eat the plant eaters the plant eaters would overpopulate.

To make this shorter I also take the side of carnivores and omnivores as without them populations would go out of wack. As for people eating meat I also agree with this. As meat as a vital source of protien. Proteins are one of the important things needed to keep the human body going. It is the same for most life on earth. All creatures need protiens.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Foxesrule » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:25 am

Not in my opinion.

First of all, our digestion system was not made to eat meat.

Second, well, most food poisoning comes from some sort of meat. (Including fish.)

And look at our teeth. Carnivore/omnivore animals have sharper teeth than that.

Also, cavemen only very occasionally ate meat. Even when they did, they respected the animal. Not like today, when we kill them in their masses with virtually no care.

And, may I say, the free-range myth. It is not true. They do not live happy lives, running about in fields happily. Nope, nope, nope...All wrong.

And, as a matter of fact, when I ate meat, I got ill more often than when I became a vegetarian.

There's actually books full of poems made by a vegan poet (He's my hero. <3 And I got my books signed by him. Also, something embarrassing...). It shows you how turkeys feel to be eaten. If you want to read the poem somewhere, it's called Talking Turkeys.

I could make pages full of reasons, most of which I bet I would no be allowed to say, or I cannot explain.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Alexander » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:19 am

Well, let's get one thing straight. We are omnivores, not carnivores, not herbivores. Alright, let's get to the next step. We choose what we eat. Since we are omnivores, we have a larger variety of what we can eat rather than both other extreme sides. Believe it or not, there are actually "carnivorous" people out there, not saying that I favor them. Then there are obviously the vegetarians. Obviously they are more acceptable because there are vegies and other things alike that can provide you what meat provides you.

Digestion.. not made to eat meat. Sure, give or take an opinion on it, but it's kind of hard talking to a vegetarian about it, you know? You seem to be leaning on one side while I'm standing here in the middle, and I feel like you'll take none of what I say into consideration. If anything, it's important to look and cherish not both, but all sides of the "story" we're sharing.

If I remember correctly, food poisoning most likely comes from old and not properly cooked meats. So if anything, you'd have to trust the chef actually knows how to cook, and yourself. Is the food up to date, check, is it cooked well, check, carry on. If there are other ways for food poisoning, then feel free to let me know.

Our teeth? Not carnivores? Well this is why I stated my first paragraph. Obviously we are not carnivores, I mean, we are omnivores. We can't say we should be one or the other as a human race, especially if we already classified ourselves as omnivores. Chimpanzees are omnivores, they eat meat occasionally. They are likely omnivores like us, and they have teeth somewhat like ours, somewhat. That being said, we aren't the only omnivores that have teeth like ours, and I'm not just talking about chimpanzees, there are a lot more. Maybe it's safe to say that we are more herbivorous than carnivorous, that's fine with me, just because we're omnivores doesn't mean we have to be stable on both sides. I wouldn't be surprised if we started off as a herbivore, if I remember correctly we handle meats unnaturally; but it works. Also as an omnivore we never had to have sharp teeth because we never had to bite down on our prey or tear the meat out with our teeth. That's what carnivores and omnivores do, really, and we have the hands to pick it up and eat it. Most have paws, we have hands to do our job. We don't need much to chew meat down, I mean, most animals barely even chew if I remember correctly. Just because we don't have sharp teeth doesn't mean we shouldn't be omnivorous.

Cavemen, a long, long, long time ago, occasionally ate meat. Yes, and now we obviously eat it more often than occasionally. Sadly people eat way too much, and just for the punch, meat is not the biggest problem for weight problems if that is what you're thinking too. To some/most people, money does the talking. Sadly. People don't have to respect the animal, but I do. I personally respect it before I eat it. It's just something I do, I feel like not many people do it, probably because they're sitting there thinking "Oh yay food!" and just eating afterwords, but that's not exactly the case for me. I'm not exactly religious or anything, but I take part in respect very well. Besides that, I don't know if people care about the animal or not. I don't know if other carnivorous and omnivorous animals care about respect for the animals they eat and kill. I think it's just living that really gets to them, the desire to keep living. I don't know to be honest, but it's a good thought. We're not all savage beings.

I remember a science teacher of mine talking about some sort of island, I don't remember the name, that was overrun by some species of deer that had no predator. It took only 100 years for the whole island to become overly, majorly populated. This lead plants to be heavily overeaten. This not only killed a lot of deer because of the lack of food and deadly diseases, this also killed a lot of plants and other herbivores, therefore the carnivores whom eat those probably smaller herbivores also lacked population as well. Everything goes downhill when something goes far unbalanced. It's not a healthy thing to think one or the other is better; there's an extreme good and extreme bad for everything. So yeah, I agree.

I know someone that was basically like you, she couldn't eat meat (other than chicken) because it made her feel more ill. By religion she can't eat most meats anyway. I, a proud omnivore that eats both meats and plants, would like to say that I have not been sick for, I don't know, I don't remember being sick in the last year or anything. It's probably because I'm smart about eating meat. It's bad to eat too much, but eating meat can be good for you.

How turkeys feel to be eaten, this is a tough one to go about. I don't know what everyone thinks to be honest, but either some or most people wouldn't care what a turkey would think if they ate it. I imagine some saying "It's dead, it can't talk" or "animals don't have souls, they don't have a mind to begin with" (I did an argument about animals having rights and there's something religious about animals not having a mind or soul, they're basically unimportant compared to humans. I was attempting to favor animal rights, so I had the challenge of trying to get around the religion idea of animals without having to be overly hated on about it.). Predators that eat turkeys might not care either, they eat for survival is what we think about them. We don't simply have to point at humans and say we have a lack of caring, we may as well say that everyone, including animals, in the world does not care. It's kind of hard to say when you don't know what everyone including animals are thinking in a general sense. You can't really put words into another's mouth.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Grep42 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:05 am

The meat industry is corrupted, and evil, and heartless. But that doesn't mean eating meat is evil. If you do your research, you can eat only meat from un-tortured animals, but it'd be tough.

Basically, there's not much we can do. But it's not like we're just killing them for fun, meat is an important part of our diets.

Humans are unusual creatures, we're built like herbivores, but act like carnivores. We were originally plant eaters, but what I keep trying to tell you veggie-eaters is we would have never gotten our large brains without meat. Meat is a high power fuel that you don't have to eat five pounds of every day. This means our stomachs could shrink and we'd have more energy for our brains to grow. I'm sorry, but without meat or our cooked/processed foods we'd pretty much starve to death if we weren't careful. Basically, we can't survive on raw vegetables, they don't have enough carbs/energy/power.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Foxesrule » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:35 pm

Grep42 wrote:The meat industry is corrupted, and evil, and heartless. But that doesn't mean eating meat is evil. If you do your research, you can eat only meat from un-tortured animals, but it'd be tough.

Basically, there's not much we can do. But it's not like we're just killing them for fun, meat is an important part of our diets.

Humans are unusual creatures, we're built like herbivores, but act like carnivores. We were originally plant eaters, but what I keep trying to tell you veggie-eaters is we would have never gotten our large brains without meat. Meat is a high power fuel that you don't have to eat five pounds of every day. This means our stomachs could shrink and we'd have more energy for our brains to grow. I'm sorry, but without meat or our cooked/processed foods we'd pretty much starve to death if we weren't careful. Basically, we can't survive on raw vegetables, they don't have enough carbs/energy/power.

If you're a vegetarian, you must be very careful about what you eat.

I had to give up haribo and jelly because of jellotine.

As a vegetarian, you know you can't JUST eat fruit and veg. That would, yes, be insane.

But I know, and I will say it now, vegetarians eat meat. When they're not knowing it. Mainly from eating sweets and marshmellows. (Yes, true story there.) And even eating cheese and pizza. (I have to check the ingredients on every thing with cheese I eat. It's this thing I cannot remember of the name of, made with the linings of calve's stomachees.)

I, personally, think this makes vegetarians like gorillas. Although they do not eat pizza or meat-substitutes, they only very occasionally eat meat-Grubs of some sort.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Grep42 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:06 pm

Then how can you claim eating meat is wrong? I'm probably never going to change your mind about that magical food known as meat, but please understand that meat in it of itself is not evil.

Also, have you ever tried a perfect steak before? Anyone who has would never dream of being vegetarian.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Foxesrule » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:10 pm

Grep42 wrote:Then how can you claim eating meat is wrong? I'm probably never going to change your mind about that magical food known as meat, but please understand that meat in it of itself is not evil.

Eating meat in itself is not evil, otherwise I would be saying foxes were evil.

I'm mainly saying that what the do to the animals is wrong, an..Well...Would you eat a dog? That's pretty much the same as eating chicken.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Grep42 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:24 pm

Now, now, people can have some priorities. I own a dog, I could never look at him again if I ate one. If I could get past the fact that it was a dog, I could eat it.

There's a difference there; dog's were raised and tamed by humans to be companions, guards, and hunters. Chickens were tamed to be a food source, one that would make it so we don't have to hunt as often. As for what we do to animals, are you talking about livestock? Simple, it started as a survival technique. And, with the human's current population we would wipe out entire species trying to fulfill our need for meat if all we could do was hunt. Trust me, keeping livestock is a better option then that, because humans can and will eat meat whenever possible.

I agree, the animals suffering is terrible. Like the chicken warehouses, those really are terrible. Even I, a seasoned carnivore, have empathy for those poor things. And turkeys, they live in rooms the size of a school's gym in the hundreds. But, there isn't much there is that we can do. We could decrease the demand, but there is no way that many people will just stop eating that much meat. We could change the system, but the meat industry would go bankrupt because the cost of taking care of the animals is expensive and they wouldn't produce nearly enough to pay for those expenses. Be my guest, think of a solution.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Foxesrule » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:26 pm

Grep42 wrote:
There's a difference there; dog's were raised and tamed by humans to be companions, guards, and hunters. Chickens were tamed to be a food source, one that would make it so we don't have to hunt as often. As for what we do to animals, are you talking about livestock? Simple, it started as a survival technique. And, with the human's current population we would wipe out entire species trying to fulfill our need for meat if all we could do was hunt. Trust me, keeping livestock is a better option then that, because humans can and will eat meat whenever possible.


The chickens did not ask to be killed in their hundreds.

There are some wild chickens in jungles, though.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Grep42 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:32 pm

How could they? Listen, Foxesrule, NOTHING WANTS TO DIE. Nothing. We can't change that. They will hate it, they will not appreciate being killed, it would probably fill their lives with a sense of dread. But there is nothing you can do about it, people eat meat, on occasion they need meat, and meat doesn't want to be eaten. If that were the case, life would've never got past single cells. They don't ask to be killed in the hundreds because they don't want to be. But, we can't just stop eating meat altogether because people would become desperate for it and begin even eating their own pets.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Postby Foxesrule » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:38 pm

Grep42 wrote:How could they? Listen, Foxesrule, NOTHING WANTS TO DIE. Nothing. We can't change that. They will hate it, they will not appreciate being killed, it would probably fill their lives with a sense of dread. But there is nothing you can do about it, people eat meat, on occasion they need meat, and meat doesn't want to be eaten. If that were the case, life would've never got past single cells. They don't ask to be killed in the hundreds because they don't want to be. But, we can't just stop eating meat altogether because people would become desperate for it and begin even eating their own pets.

We can stop eating meat altogether.

I have not became desperate for it.

(Recently I've only ate things thst say 'Suitable for veegtarians'.)

And I will NEVER, EVER eat meat.

Actually, I've recently got night mares about eating meat.
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