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Alexander
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Re: Debate Topic

Post by Alexander »

I would like to bring this topic up again, because I have a debate that's been bugging me and I'd like some opinions on this.
This is about the Star Child skull. ( http://www.starchildproject.com/images/ ... skulls.jpg )
Now I have a whole list of information. This skull was found by a little girl in Mexico around the 1930s. It is still being researched today, trying to rule out as many deformities and diseases they can.
Now for the facts~:

This skull is 900 years old.
The mother is known to be human. The father is not human.
This skull has 15% more brain capacity than the average human.
It has a flat-ish nose, smaller mouth, smaller ears, bigger eyes, and even a frail neck.
It is said that it would probably live better in a planet with lower gravity, this taking note from the frail neck.
It is possible that since the ears and other senses are of smaller size, it may have other senses that humans do not.
A clay model of the starchild was made. Because there is no jaw bone, the specialist had to create one himself as to what he thought would fit best. http://roberthood.net/blog/wp-content/u ... ndsay1.jpg
As said before there is a missing jaw bone
So far all diseases and deformities scientists have tried on this skull has been ruled out.
Deformities are asymmetrical, this skull is symmetrical.
The skull is less than half as thick as an average human skull
During an elemental test, it says that there is lower amounts of phosphorus in the bone, however much more carbon and oxygen levels.
There are strange fibers in this skull, which has never before been shown in any species at all.
The fibers are highly durable and highly resistant to blades.
Lacks frontal sinuses
Lower/weaker chewing muscles
Neck connects differently and is half the size
The teeth have heavy roots. This indicates that it was an adult before it died.
Surprisingly, 5 more teeth were waiting to come down
28 years old when died
Does not hold the same kind of blood as we do. This is because our blood is black, however the blood they found looked kind of reddish.

I don't want to go too far in information, some of it is bizarre and theories are over the edge or off the deep end about it. xD
There is one deformity I have found to be pretty similar to this skull, and that is Hydrocephalic. I looked at it and there is a study involving the starchild and comparing it to this deformity, however I am saying no to it being this deformity as of now because if I read this whole list of information again, I can include things like fibers, different elemental levels, lacking frontal sinuses, lower/weaker chewing muscles, etc that just to me rules out this deformity.
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Re: 2012

Post by Quagga »

Evelution is the fact that animals change and adapt overtime to better suite there surrondings.
I would, personally, only call that adaptation - or natural selection? - then.

I personally do not believe in evolution - that is, we evolved from "soup." Or, well, that we evolved from apes at all. Part of this reason is because of what I was taught growing up, and the other part is what I'm beginning to learn in Biology, this year. Life on the molecular level must be so precise in order to function properly and survive at all. But, I guess I cannot share it? Ah well, I'll survive.

To be honest, it would be nice if we could freely discuss religions. You don't have to downright bash other's religion, even if you disagree with it, and you can have a reasonable, calm discussion on religion. But. I quite understand why it'd be avoided, here... Still would be nice to have a discussion sometime. xD

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Re: 2012

Post by animalguy888 »

Quagga wrote:
Evelution is the fact that animals change and adapt overtime to better suite there surrondings.
I would, personally, only call that adaptation - or natural selection? - then.

I personally do not believe in evolution - that is, we evolved from "soup." Or, well, that we evolved from apes at all. Part of this reason is because of what I was taught growing up, and the other part is what I'm beginning to learn in Biology, this year. Life on the molecular level must be so precise in order to function properly and survive at all. But, I guess I cannot share it? Ah well, I'll survive.

To be honest, it would be nice if we could freely discuss religions. You don't have to downright bash other's religion, even if you disagree with it, and you can have a reasonable, calm discussion on religion. But. I quite understand why it'd be avoided, here... Still would be nice to have a discussion sometime. xD

-

The earth will end when it ends. Why must we discover the date for it? I don't see how we'd be able to do anything about it even if we were to discover it... And I don't see what good it would bring. All it would cause is panic and chaos. People would just do what they want. That could range from going on a killing spree, stealing, playing games, hanging out, eating foods... Generally, checking things off your bucket list.
actually its true. The best example i can thnk of is the whale. It orginated from an ancaint land mammal that. Most likey it started with a scarcity of food and the doscovery of the abundant fish suply in the ocean waters near were it lived. But it coul not swim well which made it vulnrable to new preditors.

and throgh milions of years of evelution and adaptation we get the whale. Heres a digram that make more sense out of this than I do.



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one of the early whales.

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heres a whales skeleton you notice the extra bone by the tail that part of what used to be a leg.

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Re: 2012

Post by Quagga »

It orginated from an ancaint land mammal
This is difficult for me to accept, I'm afraid. I will believe along the lines of, whales back then carried quite a variety of genetics, and throughout the years the more resilient, strong, dominant, and most suitable-in-those-parts genes were carried on, creating numerous breeds, while the weaker genes died out.

I don't care very much whether you consider it ignorance or otherwise, but I also currently don't care much for the, "That floating bone! It used to be a leg! Evolution!" claim.
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Re: Debate Topic

Post by Mook »

E.T has returned O.O

When I first looked at the picture comparing to two skulls I thought the starchild skull was simply a view of the back of a skull at a quick glance haha , had to take a second look.

Well I think there ARE extra-terrestrials out there!
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Re: Debate Topic

Post by Døøm Dragøn »

Alexander wrote:
This skull was found by a little girl in Mexico around the 1930s.


Poor thing must have been traumatized...or not...anyway, I never heard of this! This seems really interesting...I will have to look more into this...hmm...
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Re: Debate Topic

Post by Mook »

Ok O.O everyone keeps taking words right from my mouth, haha exactly what I was thinking Doom >.>
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Re: Debate Topic

Post by Alexander »

It was a pretty small story, but the girl found it in a hole that only she could fit through, so the guys held her as she reached for it.
It is incredibly interesting. Here's the link to learn more about it: http://www.starchildproject.com/

It seems as though they have ruled out every disease and deformity suggested to them so far.
I believe that we are not the only planet whom contains living organisms. Since I do believe this, I also believe that there is a small chance that there may be intelligent life as well.
Not only that, but certain conditions in a planet does not have to meet ours.
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Re: 2012

Post by Alexander »

Quagga wrote: "That floating bone! It used to be a leg! Evolution!"
It's not that this is ignorant (Well, technically it is), it's that it's inaccurate. This is more than just pointing at a bone and calling it evolution. There needs to be a hard study on it in order to claim that something like this even is remotely relative to evolution.
I don't think anyone claimed that this actually was evolution. They probably will say that it could be a result of evolution, but doesn't mean it's claimed to be.
If anyone were to claim this to be evolution, I would cry.

Well, I figured out that these extra bones aren't useless. They apparently help strengthen reproductive organs.
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Re: 2012

Post by SouthernStar »

Define Evolution: The gradual development of something.

Let's not forget about the basic point here.

The above post is confusing, too.

Oh wait, nevermind.
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Re: 2012

Post by Quagga »

Alexander wrote:This is more than just pointing at a bone and calling it evolution.
Sorry, that was just my very summarized version of a basic, "This is proof of evolution!"
Also, I heard of the whole helps-reproduction theory, too. Only a few sentences, though... And comments included a few people dismissing it immediately and making fun of it. So I myself was hesitant to consider - though I didn't do much research on it, itself, so.

Definitions of words tend to vary from person to person... sadly... There needs to be ONE accepted definition, not multiple... Otherwise it gets confusing and conflicting. >.<

Think we could create a discussion topic related to this, so as to not crowd this one with off-topic-ness? So long as we keep it as calm and kind as possible, or else it be closed immediately... ?
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Re: 2012

Post by Lysander »

Heyoo! Shouldn't this EVOLUSHUN! topic move to de debate topic?

P'erently evolution makes things simpler, not more difficult.
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Wait, what if the leg is just like an extra bone? -Shot for terrible theory-
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Alexander »

I'm hoping this will work, as discussing and debating pretty much can go together as one big group. I will allow any discussion other than obviously what doesn't fit with the forum rules. I will be very touchy on the religion/scientific subject as I do not want anyone to offend anyone else about it. I will allow it, but I'll be sure to let you know when it's either going too far or that people may get offended by it.
As long as everyone plays nice on these touchy subjects, I'll keep it around. One slip up and the privilege will be taken away for a while.
I was thinking of splitting the topic anyway, though I was thinking of either making a Discussion Topic (which I don't have a problem doing), or merging it with the Debate Topic.

I only saw it once, but I guess it could be something to consider. The leg could just be an extra bone, however the question that scientists are asking is if it was used before. We have a few things that are now useless to us and that we no longer need to use, and it seems as though the whales have the same sort of thing going on with their extra 'leg' bone. Though to me what is interesting is that this 'leg' bone is not even nearly connected to the spinal chord, which makes me think twice about it being any sort of leg at all. I don't know, I don't have enough information to support it being a leg. d:

There are a variety of definitions for evolution. How extreme or simple it is depends on the person and how much they know about it, I guess. I don't fully get evolution, though. As much as I've been taught about what it was in Biology class last year, I still don't get the full story as to how animals seem to 'evolve'.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Kenya »

It's not that you must believe in evolution, but please suspend your disbelief.
Whether you believe in it or not, I find it amazing how every living being is so particularily made to fit its environment perfectly. Every animal is adapted so well, it's quite amazing to watch and see.
I do realize religious views are different from those who are based upon science, but please suspend your disbelief whether you're into religion or science. No one can say its wrong, since really we don't know. We can guess, but by the end of the day, it's only a guess.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Quagga »

To me, my beliefs are truth. As such, it does not feel like a guess. To those who may not agree with my beliefs, I may be guessing, but to myself, I am not. To you, there may be no answer. To others, it really feels like they have the answer.

They have to be so wonderfully fit to their environment, otherwise, they would not survive. Or... they would be found elsewhere. :P Oh, I still have a question somewhat relative to it... Say you believe in evolution. I guess I don't have to limit this to just the belief of evolution, though... Anyways. Animals evolve, and if I'm correct, the stronger, most fit, and especially so - the most suitable creatures survive for the next generations. If this is so, why, then, support saving endangered species? Wouldn't they be the weaker creatures, since they're getting wiped out? Why leave a weak species live when they should, eventually again, risk being wiped out due to the stronger, more fit animals overpowering them? They would be a sick species, unfit to any longer live.

-Now, excuses can include, "Oh, the ecosystem will become unbalanced!" However, the ecosystem has lost numerous creatures in the past. Why should it die out now, because you lose an already tiny and dying population (Say, maybe... 1000, or 500, left) of animals? The population should be small enough by then to hardly have a significant affect on it anymore, because the chances of encountering that animal has decreased greatly. How the other animals survive and react to this disappearance should be notable by that time. --Okay, maybe I can understand saving a sudden, rapidly decreasing population of 10,000 to 1,000... But otherwise... (I'm just pondering, I don't have any feelings against - or towards - saving endangered animals. Thoughts just come to mind, at times...)

I believe in a smaller version of evolution, like I mentioned before - if you'd even call it that. I still prefer the word "adaptation" over "evolution," though... Or, better yet, general genetics.

Edit:
I don't think this'll be offensive. Don't think it's even very much relative to religion. Although if it was a bit too much, then sorry. Don't think it was, though... Just a thought that came to mind.
Last edited by Quagga on Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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