Debate/Discussion Topic

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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Alexander »

Quagga wrote:It's entirely natural. But, whatever.
We do not discuss anything that is deemed inappropriate (implying that it is inappropriate for children, as this is a family friendly site alltogether) in this Forum as it is in the rules. Here is the exact text from the rules: "- Talking about innapropriate topics (politics, sex, religion, ect)" Clearly it was in line with one of the examples.
We, as moderators, are only saying to be careful as to what facts or opinions you want to discuss. There are plenty of things to discuss that are natural but are okay in a sense, and others where it is natural, but inappropriate to talk around children. I hope you now understand why we take this seriously.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Quagga »

Mind you, sex is most typically used when referring to humans, whereas mating or breeding mostly in reference to animals. And since mating is possible in game, it can cause a bit of confusion. Likewise, h----ing (for lack of knowing if I'm even so able to speak it now, but you should recall it from my previously removed post) is typically even less terrible than mating, and as such, adds to confusion. If it's less, is it still considered bad? Opinions vary. Your words make it sound as though you expected we had full knowledge of the wrong we were doing, though instead it was obviously thought to be fine, otherwise we'd not have spoken of the topic.

--

Honestly, just in case... If you're going to remove this as well, explain why. Please do. Don't just say "Oh, you've mentioned things we shouldn't talk about." Based off the last removed post, I feel that this here, this post, is the most vague and innocent way possible to do speak of these things. Explain HOW it goes against rules, seeing as how this discusses primarily terms and technicalities instead of the words, the topics, themselves. Cause honestly, I don't see why this may (may, mind you) be removed.

This isn't some sort of dare, threat, or rebellion. I'm genuinely curious. Lack of explanation creates room for further error, further terror, and further annoyance. Being silenced does no good if you can't satisfy one's curiosity as to why they were silenced, or you'll be dealing with trouble in the future.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Alexander »

Quagga wrote:Mind you, sex is most typically used when referring to humans, whereas mating or breeding mostly in reference to animals.
I would rather you not go for the "mind you" and go for why you don't see it as a bad thing to talk about. Other than that, I will be ignoring this out of kindness.
Quagga wrote:And since mating is possible in game, it can cause a bit of confusion.
It is possible in game, however the subject that was talked about is not possible.
Quagga wrote:Likewise, h----ing (for lack of knowing if I'm even so able to speak it now, but you should recall it from my previously removed post) is typically even less terrible than mating, and as such, adds to confusion. If it's less, is it still considered bad? Opinions vary.
What you think is less or greater is, of course, your opinion. However on family friendly terms, discussing mating and the other subject (of which was deleted) is not allowed. You can say the word mating, and unsure of the other word as it is not my decision, however (this is not for you directly as you did not do this) talking about how they do this and in detail is not meant for children's eyes.
Quagga wrote:Your words make it sound as though you expected we had full knowledge of the wrong we were doing, though instead it was obviously thought to be fine, otherwise we'd not have spoken of the topic.
It is my job to broaden the subject and to say why it is not to be spoken with little facts, such as it being in the rules. It was thought to be fine maybe because you weren't the one that created the subject and that I haven't done anything about it yet. That's not me to say, however. Again, you were not at fault for this, only the one that created the subject.
Quagga wrote:Honestly, just in case... If you're going to remove this as well, explain why. Please do. Don't just say "Oh, you've mentioned things we shouldn't talk about."
This, I view, is unfair on your side of the story, thus why I will not delete this post (not that I ever intended to) and will help you through our side of the issue. I know there needs to be an understanding, and this I will hopefully be able to answer. Even though I can't persuade you with opinions, I am doing my best to provide you with facts so that I can help you see why we did it in as much detail as possible. You will see this later as I discuss it's relativity to the forum rules.
Quagga wrote:Based off the last removed post, I feel that this here, this post, is the most vague and innocent way possible to do speak of these things. Explain HOW it goes against rules, seeing as how this discusses primarily terms and technicalities instead of the words, the topics, themselves. Cause honestly, I don't see why this may (may, mind you) be removed.
Again, just in case this is where I should really be saying it, Kenya wanted to remove the user's post that created the subject. After doing so, you have to remove all other post that related to that person's subject. She was defining her post to the one she warned. Just to make sure you understand, once she deleted that post, she had to delete yours simply because it was relevant and directed toward the post that she had deleted before.

If you want me to go over as to why it is part of the forum rules, then I guess I'll have to. As I said before, there is a specific rule that goes over this. Anything that is part of those broad subjects branch out into others. So let's go with Religion as an example. Okay, so here's religion. Well, what kind of religions are there? How many religions are there? What are your views on them, good or bad? Say you discuss a specific religion and speak in detail about not only this religion, but all religions (at the last paragraph of speaking it) can be bad for the society and economy. How would someone with that religion, or, in any religion, think of your post? Would they smash you back down with hatred, or take it offensively and simply rage about your lack of respecting religion back? There are many other ways to take things, of course, but I want to keep it a little broad for my hands' sake.
Now, let's take it to the subject we've brought before. Say someone was talking about neutering and how it is good or bad. Someone brings up the subject of how they regularly would like to mate if never neutered. Someone takes it a step farther and decides to go about the subject that we have deleted. So, someone decides to make that subject in a sort of detail that I believe may be unnecessary for children's eyes. Since this is a family friendly site, I decided to copy the creator-of-the-subject's quote and pasted it directly to Kenya to see her opinion on the subject. She also does not like the detail of the subject, and so she decides to take in the action and to delete any posts that was about that specific subject and to warn the user that created it.

Quagga wrote:This isn't some sort of dare, threat, or rebellion. I'm genuinely curious. Lack of explanation creates room for further error, further terror, and further annoyance. Being silenced does no good if you can't satisfy one's curiosity as to why they were silenced, or you'll be dealing with trouble in the future.
I definitely understand your curiosity of wanting to understand what I'm trying to get at, and I hope that you can at least respect it in some way that, I cannot say it enough, is for the children. The children is a very, very, VERY important part of this forum as this is, quite, family friendly, and is managed maybe too carefully. Maybe. I do not want to be the type of moderator to simply silence you because I have nothing to say back, but rather to consider your judgement and to help you with our side anyway.
So, in case you do not understand the word "family friendly", I would view it as a rated "G" movie. Now, the exact definition of a G-rated movie is that it is "deemed suitable for viewers of all ages" (Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/g-rated ). Now think of this forum as a G-rated movie. Would the subject that was deleted be suitable in a G-rated movie? I personally would say no, and not even in a PG movie either. PG-13, sure, but again, this site is, indeed, for all ages, and us, being human, are not perfect, even as a moderator, so we, of course, can't collect everything in the right, proper hands, however we can at some points catch them as something not child appropriate and will take action.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Kenya »

Excuse me, but referencing those subjects and whatnot on this forum is strictly prohibited. Any further comments about this will result in a warning. Change the subject and stay on topic.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by animalguy888 »

Evolution! Before this turn into something like a religious argument take the time to learn what Evolution actually is.

Read this as found on this site. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evoluti ... ition.html


Most non-scientists seem to be quite confused about precise definitions of biological evolution. Such confusion is due in large part to the inability of scientists to communicate effectively to the general public and also to confusion among scientists themselves about how to define such an important term. When discussing evolution it is important to distinguish between the existence of evolution and various theories about the mechanism of evolution. And when referring to the existence of evolution it is important to have a clear definition in mind. What exactly do biologists mean when they say that they have observed evolution or that humans and chimps have evolved from a common ancestor?

One of the most respected evolutionary biologists has defined biological evolution as follows:


"In the broadest sense, evolution is merely change, and so is all-pervasive; galaxies, languages, and political systems all evolve. Biological evolution ... is change in the properties of populations of organisms that transcend the lifetime of a single individual. The ontogeny of an individual is not considered evolution; individual organisms do not evolve. The changes in populations that are considered evolutionary are those that are inheritable via the genetic material from one generation to the next. Biological evolution may be slight or substantial; it embraces everything from slight changes in the proportion of different alleles within a population (such as those determining blood types) to the successive alterations that led from the earliest protoorganism to snails, bees, giraffes, and dandelions."
- Douglas J. Futuyma in Evolutionary Biology, Sinauer Associates 1986


It is important to note that biological evolution refers to populations and not to individuals and that the changes must be passed on to the next generation. In practice this means that,

Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.
This is a good working scientific definition of evolution; one that can be used to distinguish between evolution and similar changes that are not evolution. Another common short definition of evolution can be found in many textbooks:


"In fact, evolution can be precisely defined as any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next."
- Helena Curtis and N. Sue Barnes, Biology, 5th ed. 1989 Worth Publishers, p.974


One can quibble about the accuracy of such a definition (and we have often quibbled on these newsgroups) but it also conveys the essence of what evolution really is. When biologists say that they have observed evolution, they mean that they have detected a change in the frequency of genes in a population. (Often the genetic change is inferred from phenotypic changes that are heritable.) When biologists say that humans and chimps have evolved from a common ancestor they mean that there have been successive heritable changes in the two separated populations since they became isolated.
Unfortunately the common definitions of evolution outside of the scientific community are different. For example, in the Oxford Concise Science Dictionary we find the following definition:


"evolution: The gradual process by which the present diversity of plant and animal life arose from the earliest and most primitive organisms, which is believed to have been continuing for the past 3000 million years."

This is inexcusable for a dictionary of science. Not only does this definition exclude prokaryotes, protozoa, and fungi, but it specifically includes a term "gradual process" which should not be part of the definition. More importantly the definition seems to refer more to the history of evolution than to evolution itself. Using this definition it is possible to debate whether evolution is still occurring, but the definition provides no easy way of distinguishing evolution from other processes. For example, is the increase in height among Caucasians over the past several hundred years an example of evolution? Are the color changes in the peppered moth population examples of evolution? This is not a scientific definition.
Standard dictionaries are even worse.


"evolution: ...the doctrine according to which higher forms of life have gradually arisen out of lower.." - Chambers
"evolution: ...the development of a species, organism, or organ from its original or primitive state to its present or specialized state; phylogeny or ontogeny" - Webster's


These definitions are simply wrong. Unfortunately it is common for non-scientists to enter into a discussion about evolution with such a definition in mind. This often leads to fruitless debate since the experts are thinking about evolution from a different perspective. When someone claims that they don't believe in evolution they cannot be referring to an acceptable scientific definition of evolution because that would be denying something which is easy to demonstrate. It would be like saying that they don't believe in gravity!
Recently I read a statement from a creationist who claimed that scientists are being dishonest when they talk about evolution. This person believed that evolution was being misrepresented to the public. The real problem is that the public, and creationists, do not understand what evolution is all about. This person's definition of evolution was very different from the common scientific definition and as a consequence he was unable to understand what evolutionary biology really meant. This is the same person who claimed that one could not "believe" in evolution and still be religious! But once we realize that evolution is simply "a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations" it seems a little silly to pretend that this excludes religion!

Scientists such as myself must share the blame for the lack of public understanding of science. We need to work harder to convey the correct information. Sometimes we don't succeed very well but that does not mean that we are dishonest. On the other hand, the general public, and creationists in particular, need to also work a little harder in order to understand science. Reading a textbook would help.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

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tl;dr Image






Animals change into different animals.

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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Alexander »

I'm sure this is an obvious guess.
This is about SOPA and PIPA.
I'm sure that some or most of you can easily see that many sites have "blacked out" for 12 or 24 hours to make the message about SOPA and PIPA. Now, all of them are not saying that these are necessarily 100% evil. A high majority of us due not support piracy, I am one of those in that "group". What is dangerous, however, is how they manage piracy.
Censoring a web site would basically drive everyone in that web site out of business (a great example would be Youtube). It gets a little worse, however. Even web sites that link out some content hosted on other sites could be held accountable from violations and also be shut down. So, (in short) every web site of which allows user-generated content, could be under the constant threat of prosecution, and with that, unable to sustain their business model, and further be forced to shut down.
Using Youtube as an example again, this site provides good policing for copyrighted content and removing them. However they can still be a big target because of the larger corporations of which would now have bigger powers given to them because of these bills. (Something around those lines. Sorry I can't be completely clear about this.)
Another thing to add is that it is outright impossible to catch 100% of instances where there is copyrighted that is uploaded. (Web sites like Mediafire and Megaupload are good examples).
If a web site were to be blocked from the US and they are highly dependent on US popularity from their site, they could be in a great amount of danger due to a sudden loss of customer support and thus many may resort to shutting down as a result. (Another way for jobs to be lost)

What must be known is that Piracy IS an issue! However, SOPA and PIPA, this is definitely not the solution. This is also the first major attempt to limiting the major freedom of information available on the internet.


BAD LANGUAGE in the background of the video (It's towards the end), however not voiced by the user of which is speaking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6_lkFxT ... AAAAAAACAA

If you look at his description you can see a lot of informational web sites about SOPA and PIPA.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by SilentEcho »

I say NOPA to SOPA (even though it's not actually going to affect me, I still think it's a stupid idea)
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Scarikas »

lol, that pun is from minecraft.
I swore to myself I'd see plenty of SOPA posts when I clicked this topic.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Alexander »

This is not the maturity level I would like to expect on a Debate/Discussion Topic. If I see another one from either of you, I would love to kindly ask you to leave my topic, as I have stated in my rules.
I have addressed the issue of SOPA and PIPA obviously because of the series of black outs yesterday, thus why I said in the beginning that it would be an "obvious guess".
Now how about we discuss this rather than joke around about memes. I'm sure you can create your own meme topic for you and other people to enjoy. Personally, I would enjoy a topic like that as well, but in this topic, it is, to put quite simply, "Not Okay".
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by SilentEcho »

Those blackouts were annoying. I couldn't live without Wikipedia, up until the blackouts I never realised how much I'd used it.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Quagga »

That was the point. If the bill gets passed, that's what you can look forward to - lot's of annoying censoring (as well as censoring the freedom of speech). And so, it's why you should oppose it. Good intentions, but not terribly smart people behind enforcing and wording it...
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Alexander »

Quagga wrote:That was the point. If the bill gets passed, that's what you can look forward to - lot's of annoying censoring (as well as censoring the freedom of speech). And so, it's why you should oppose it. Good intentions, but not terribly smart people behind enforcing and wording it...
I agree 100%. It definitely has good intentions, however they definitely shouldn't be the ones talking as they obviously know little about the Internet and what it's really like. Not only that, but the long term effects will not just effect America, but any web site around the world that is blocked by the US I'm sure would lose so many Users that it's not even funny to watch them have to suffer over a sudden loss. It should be quite obvious to Congress that when it comes to worldwide, there's probably a very, very high percentage of American customers, which is what a lot of web sites depend on.
Turning off my rambling on button, I have found this cool graph that tells a lot of more juicy information about SOPA & PIPA. http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/201 ... ipedia.png
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by SilentEcho »

Nintendo, Sony and EA aren't supporting it anymore :D Apparently some anonymous group of hackers threatened them.
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Re: Debate/Discussion Topic

Post by Scarikas »

That's.... Good? :u
But yeah.. I hate SOPA.
I'm forcing myself not to go all immature again. I will get you someday Alex >:F
Alex, why u no humor?

I'm glad Minecraft is supporting SOPA, with all their money and big business with 5 people buying it every 0.5 seconds it's probably a big addition to the protests. Deviantart is supporting it, too, and I'm amused by Google's way of blacking out it's logo. If SOPA passes, the economy would be ruined. People won't be able to see gameplay of a game on youtube, therefor won't want to buy it. Trailers don't explain everything. Not to mention, I found ALL of my favorite songs within in the internet, and if SOPA passes you won't even be allowed to listen to them on your computer.
I actually can't even see SOPA passing.
Gosh, I can't even imagine what would happen if they did. They seem to be overreacting.
How I see SOPA:
A bunch of old people
trying to take over the internet.

Some people think they're so scary...
My friend told me the author of SOPA uses copyrighted images on his website and doesn't give any credit.
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